Chat log of discussion for “SL Chamber of Commerce Draft Proposal”

  1. Chili Carson

    [19:07] Well, first, thanks to everyone for coming tonight! This is very exciting.

    [19:07] By way of a quick intro, I’m the Chief Operating Officer for an accounting firm in RL

    [19:07] The name of the firm is KAWG&F and we have offices in Maryland and one in SL

    [19:08] This presentation is an initial vision for an organization to give some unity to the SL business community

    [19:08] needs a unifying network

    [19:08] Everything else here represents possibilities

    [19:09] Without a unified network, it will be impossible for the business community

    [19:09] to move forward in any meaninful way..

    [19:09] like the old cliche: "A house divided cannot stand"

    [19:09] I realize there is a history of false stars with similar endeavors

    [19:10] and hope we can incorporate what we can learn from those experiences

    [19:10] and find common ground despite some differences

    [19:10] With all that said, I am going to start rolling the slides

    [19:11] As we know, SL is in a frontier stage

    [19:11] But, even though things are just forming

    [19:11] there are already over 3000 businesses here

    [19:11] And, many millions of dollars change hands each month

    [19:12] I think in July it was approximately $6 million dollars in transactions between users/residents

    [19:12] I believe that the business community has an opportunity to be more successful as a whole if we can work towards some common goals

    [19:13] The current state of affairs is a bit chaotic, but out of chaos, comes order

  2. Sudane Erato

    [19:13] :)

  3. Chili Carson

    [19:13] Here is a draft mission statement. Again these are just some ideas

    [19:14] Again, you see the themese of unity, working collectively, and also, giving ourselves and the community

    [19:14] some assurance of conduct and ethics

    [19:14] BTW, can everyone see the slides ok?

  4. Prokofy Neva

    [19:14] taking awhile to rez

  5. Chicago Kipling

    [19:14] Yes

  6. Zorn Cheetah

    [19:14] yup

  7. Sudane Erato

    [19:14] yes

  8. Bean Wollongong

    [19:14] sure can!

  9. Chili Carson

    [19:14] am i going too fast?

  10. George Okame

    [19:14] yep

  11. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:14] good pace

  12. Jancie Laviolette

    [19:15] no fine

  13. Seb Basiat

    [19:15] pace is good

  14. Chili Carson

    [19:15] Ok, good.

  15. Bean Wollongong

    [19:15] nope all is good

  16. Chili Carson

    [19:15] So, some ideas about eligibility

    [19:15] Business owners from both SL and RL and those cross over folks

    [19:15] We will need to develop an application process

    [19:16] And in that application process would need to make sure that we are dealing with reputable folks

    [19:16] Also, develop a non-business owner membership

    [19:16] A list of potential benefits.

    [19:17] Again, not cast in stone and we may find that we need to limit the scope quite a bit in the beginning to get out of the blocks!

    [19:17] One of the things that strikes me as really important is the ability to work through a lot of the issues surrounding

    [19:18] RL businesses coming in and how that impacts the economic environment for the business that

    [19:18] have grown up organically within SL

    [19:18] *on

    [19:19] Ok…I will continue

    [19:19] Here is a list of potential benefits to non members and the community

    [19:19] I think it would be very helpful if people had a place to go for general info on business in SL

    [19:20] As well, as being able to give some assurance as to the standards that chamber members agree to uphold

    [19:21] As for assisting RL companies in their integration, by working with them, I think it could help minimize the potential negative impact

    [19:21] And, here is the final slide — these are some ideas as to how to implement

    [19:21] Starting with the most important!

    [19:21] Having this be more than just one person.

    [19:22] While I have presented some concepts and starting ideas, my main goal was to get a dialogue going

    [19:22] and form a group of folks to work through some of this stuff

    [19:22] OK, that’s the meat…questions, discussion?

  17. Sudane Erato

    [19:23] absolutely great

  18. Chili Carson

    [19:23] Thanks, Sudane

  19. Sudane Erato

    [19:23] this is exactly whats needed

  20. Seb Basiat

    [19:23] I was curious what the application process would entail? How would it tackle identity?

  21. Chili Carson

    [19:24] If anyone is interested, I am happy to email a copy of these slides

    [19:24] I am not sure, Seb, we need to study that and I need help figuring that out

  22. Bean Wollongong

    [19:24] Seb that is a great question for the Board :)

  23. Chili Carson

    [19:24] But I think it’s crucial

  24. Prokofy Neva

    [19:24] Could I make a comment?

  25. Chili Carson

    [19:24] please do

  26. Prokofy Neva

    [19:25] I think it’s important to distinguish among 3 types of entities:

    [19:25] 1) Chamber of Commerce that helps bond the business community and give it identity and help share good practices, tips, etc

  27. Asri Falcone

    [19:25] also im sure your aware the several groups have been attempted like this in world and failed what is the projected turn around timeline for the influstructure of the group and why is it different?

  28. Prokofy Neva

    [19:25] 2) Better Business Bureau run as a non-profit which has consumers help monitor business and has criteria to establish good practices

    [19:26] 3) Consumer advocacy groups that press for accountability

  29. Chili Carson

    [19:26] Yes, Asri, I have heard that. We have to make it different. We have to work together and see it through

  30. Soraya Till

    [19:26] would the chamber also assist new SL residents’ businesses to get sarted?

  31. Chili Carson

    [19:26] You are correct, Prok.

  32. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:26] let’s let prok finsih his question

  33. Prokofy Neva

    [19:26] I think past efforts have foundered on the failure to distingush among these things and the problem of just one big business or powerful group trying to run it and force others to unite around it.

  34. Chili Carson

    [19:26] It is an excellent point.

  35. George Okame

    [19:26] great proposal! gtg, c u all!

  36. Prokofy Neva

    [19:27] It’s very important to recognize thati n real life, business assocations emerge among equals on the basis of shared perceptions

  37. Chili Carson

    [19:27] Which do we focus on, which do we start with?

  38. Prokofy Neva

    [19:27] not because one big business parachutes and says "unite around me"

    [19:27] There’d have to be very compelling reasons to say, oh, let’s let one very powerful RL business with lots of resourcing and staff

    [19:27] so what are those compelling reasons?

    [19:27] lead the charge on this for others without their consent at the initial stages

    [19:27] The other problem with past efforts

  39. Asri Falcone

    [19:27] thats great in theory… but what makes this different and what would be an estimated timeline in completeing the technical things so that it is possible to start implementing these works?

  40. Prokofy Neva

    [19:28] has been that people just look for a whitelisting method to put themselves and their pals on the whitelist to sell their products wiht a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval

    [19:28] and blacklist their rivals

  41. Chili Carson

    [19:29] I hear what you are saying Prok, but don’t you think we need to start somewhere in terms of making it better?

  42. Prokofy Neva

    [19:29] Well surely you start not by saying "here’s my institution, I’m just one business, apply and be on my website"

    [19:29] I think you need to back up a few steps

  43. Chili Carson

    [19:29] No, not at all

  44. Prokofy Neva

    [19:29] and say "can we make a working group of SL busiensses and RL busiensses that might work on creating this"

  45. Chili Carson

    [19:29] As I mentioned several times, i do not want this to be about my business

  46. Prokofy Neva

    [19:30] and frankly perhaps there is no commonality for SL and RL businesses; I suspect that may be the case

  47. Asri Falcone

    [19:30] i am a member of the sellers guild and personally what i do to avoid this is investigate the complaints personally i have found as prok says alot of the accusations have been false

  48. Prokofy Neva

    [19:30] well whoever runs the code and the third-party website is running it Chili

    [19:30] it’s like whoever owns the sim

    [19:30] it comes down to that

  49. Asri Falcone

    [19:30] but i report that too

  50. Chili Carson

    [19:30] Prok, how do you suggest it be handled?

  51. Prokofy Neva

    [19:30] As I just said, an organizing committee of those committed to meet once a week or even more frequently

  52. Chili Carson

    [19:30] Asri, as far as timeline goes, that would need to be worked out in discussins

  53. Prokofy Neva

    [19:31] whose purpose is to make a set of rules of the road for such an organization

  54. Chili Carson

    [19:31] *discussions

  55. Prokofy Neva

    [19:31] not an already out-of=the-box applciation process to be dealt with by an unnaccountable executive somewhere

    [19:31] That is, there’s nothing to stop you from doing that of course

  56. Bean Wollongong

    [19:31] There is nothing to prevent creating an RL org to "own" the web site etc

  57. Prokofy Neva

    [19:31] but it just depends on whether you want buy-in

    [19:31] well organizations get created when people have a need for them and already work together

  58. Chili Carson

    [19:32] This would not be a KAWG&F project. I am volunteering my time and effort to do this

  59. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:32] I think Chili was suggesting a process like that, and these were just her initial ideas

  60. Prokofy Neva

    [19:32] fantasizing how they should be structured from the top down is what makes them fail in SL

  61. Jancie Laviolette

    [19:32] /ao on

  62. Bean Wollongong

    [19:32] A Board needsd sto be created to answer all of these questions

  63. Prokofy Neva

    [19:32] it’s good if there is a process like that, but it’s also important to understand the mission statement

  64. Chili Carson

    [19:32] Correct, Bean

  65. Prokofy Neva

    [19:32] what is the mission statement, and is it already pre-cooked?

  66. Bean Wollongong

    [19:32] once we have a group committed to assisting with this we can then flush the details

    [19:33] it was an example of what might be done Prok

  67. Chili Carson

    [19:33] The mission statement needs to be approved by a group

  68. Prokofy Neva

    [19:33] yes tottally

    [19:33] but we need to have some kind of ballpark concept to draw in those with stake

    [19:33] is the mission to unify business because it needs unifying?

    [19:33] around what principle?

  69. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:33] and ultimately, the group will build a reputation as being honest and valuable, or not.

  70. Prokofy Neva

    [19:33] is th emission to ensure that Stroker Serpentine will never have his beds sold at yardsales? or?

  71. Bean Wollongong

    [19:34] huh?

  72. Prokofy Neva

    [19:34] well I cite that as a small but significant example of how widely differing economic models stand behind business unity

    [19:34] some people favour the content creator position that says there can’t even be any first-sale doctrine

    [19:34] others say this is a pioneer world that must affirm the free flow of goods and services

    [19:35] there are all kinds of economic theories people promote in SL

  73. Chili Carson

    [19:35] The question is, which theories would back the greatest chance for survival and then thriving for SL?

  74. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:36] since SL businesses are also RL businesses, is it useful to have some sort of RL organization backing the SL one?

  75. Prokofy Neva

    [19:36] perhaps you should answer that? I know I’d say that only a commitment to free market capitalism would make sense

    [19:36] but there are people in the audience who would argue for socialism or guild-type of craftsmen based economies

  76. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:36] A Chamber of Commerce (also referred to in some circles as a Board of Trade, though this phrase is not commonly used in the United States) is a form of business network. The primary goal of a chamber is to improve the business climate in a locality,

  77. Prokofy Neva

    [19:36] your RL business works in RL America under capitalism; do you plan to use that same operating principle here?

  78. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:36] typically through business networking, lobbying, and common projects and a selection of business services.

  79. Chili Carson

    [19:36] i don’t think we are going to end up with a one-size fits all

  80. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:36] — wikipedia

  81. Prokofy Neva

    [19:37] Wikipedia wouldn’t be a source for me to accept uncritically Rubaiyat but no need to get bogged down in that

  82. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:37] which sounds reasonable

  83. Chili Carson

    [19:37] Again, the plan will be owned by the organization, not just one person

  84. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:37] well how about reading it then?

  85. Prokofy Neva

    [19:37] business trade organization or network *to do what*?

    [19:37] I did?

  86. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:37] seems like a good starting point

  87. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:37] so different types of business would have different ways to solve their issues. some would choose to join the CC, others would have their own solutions?

  88. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:38] I think you called for a starting point

  89. Prokofy Neva

    [19:38] well lobbying for what? against whome?

  90. Bean Wollongong

    [19:38] u have to have a starting point…and like all things it is both

  91. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:38] common business interests

  92. Chili Carson

    [19:38] I imagine that it will not appeal to eveyone, but hopefully it will be valuable to enough people

  93. Prokofy Neva

    [19:38] lobby to have no first sale doctrine? or lobby to have tighter protection of creator coded permissions that might hobble free trade?

  94. Bean Wollongong

    [19:38] we r pulling together businesses to share resources that will be of interest

  95. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:38] against impediments to common business intersts

  96. Bean Wollongong

    [19:38] lobby for what issues the group feels need to be lobbyed for

  97. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:38] lets leave the individual issues for later

  98. Bean Wollongong

    [19:39] you can’t predict that until you have a group

  99. Chili Carson

    [19:39] negativity would be a BIG impediment in my book

  100. Asri Falcone

    [19:39] excuse me im sorry can someone send me a log of the meeting and questions? i must run

  101. Bean Wollongong

    [19:39] no problem asri

  102. Asri Falcone

    [19:39] thx guys:)

  103. Prokofy Neva

    [19:39] OK well do you feel there is enough of a commonality of interests between RL-based and SL indigenous businesses to make sense to join in one chamber?

  104. Chili Carson

    [19:40] poinky, will we have a transcrip avail?

  105. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:40] Yes, we’ll figure out a way to make it available

  106. Chili Carson

    [19:40] i can’t answer that, it is up to each individual

  107. Seb Basiat

    [19:40] Would starting with a set of stated values help?

  108. Chili Carson

    [19:40] i think so seb

  109. Bean Wollongong

    [19:41] Values r important

  110. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:41] I believe the group can find that.

    [19:41] as a business network

  111. Bean Wollongong

    [19:42] That is the key, once the group is created it will answer all of these specific questions

  112. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:42] and with the intent of improving the business climate (whatever that means)

  113. Xantha Oe

    [19:42] i was doubting that too prov. – i think indiginous SL business & newcomer corporations will have a lot of the same concerns but self-identify in 2 distinct groups the CoC could have meeting fourms for both separately

  114. Bean Wollongong

    [19:42] which will answer the question of who joins and finds value in it

  115. Prokofy Neva

    [19:42] Bean, you still need to have some kind of chapeau, or some kind of theme to draw people

  116. Xantha Oe

    [19:43] will there be a cost fo join like in FL?

  117. Bean Wollongong

    [19:43] that is what the missions and values will do

  118. Chili Carson

    [19:43] We will need to work through some planning to figure out membership costs

  119. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:43] and the network

  120. Xantha Oe

    [19:44] i think the 3 items Prov. mentioned at the beginning unify interests & indicated the mission & goals

  121. Bean Wollongong

    [19:44] Right Rub, seeing who is involved will also attract

  122. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:44] I think Prok made a good point about the 3 areas

  123. Chili Carson

    [19:44] Yes, I agree, Prok was right on with that

  124. Bean Wollongong

    [19:44] no doubt

  125. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:44] and I think we will need to be aware of that, and be prepared to deal with that

  126. Seb Basiat

    [19:44] I would agree that Prok nicely articulated 3 areas

  127. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:45] how do they relate to each other and what specifically are we trying to create

    [19:45] is there room, and is it desirable for the others to be created as well?

    [19:45] rather are they necessary?

  128. Chili Carson

    [19:45] These are all good questions, I am glad we will have a transcript to study from

  129. Xantha Oe

    [19:46] will the CoC just be the same as in FL or have other SL-specific aspects related to this medium?


  130. [19:46] u have offered a calling card to Poinky Malaprop.

    [19:46] ur calling card was accepted.

  131. Chili Carson

    [19:46] I am thinking Xantha, there will definitely be SL specific things

    [19:47] We are serving in an entirely different environment

  132. Prokofy Neva

    [19:47] It does help to have at least some overall cohesive goal, to say "business needs to unite in a CoC because…." and then say…becaue conditions are tough? Because it’s a challenging new technology? *something*

  133. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:47] well keep in mind that it MAY include RL businesses

  134. Chili Carson

    [19:47] Exactly, Prok

  135. Bean Wollongong

    [19:47] just liek a CoC in RL in a city has different needs and purposes then another RL City

  136. Chili Carson

    [19:47] Right on, Bean

  137. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:48] yes, and I like the idea of a common ethos

    [19:48] though I havent a clue what that will be

    [19:48] sort of a consumers bill of rights

    [19:48] that all members support

  138. Prokofy Neva

    [19:48] What would even be characterized as a business? in SL, there is no transparency; there is no D&B; there’s no yellow pages hardly

  139. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:48] well does it matter?

  140. Bean Wollongong

    [19:49] all questions that need answers Prok…good ones

  141. Chili Carson

    [19:49] More good questions, Prok. I have been thinking about that too

  142. Prokofy Neva

    [19:49] Yes it does, because I know I’d rather sit in a committee meeting with people who really try to really run busiensses under these harsh conditions here

  143. Xantha Oe

    [19:49] and approved/vetted/member businesses could post the SL CoC logo on their storefronts

  144. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:49] if we are formed around giving a fair deal and upholding priciples

  145. Prokofy Neva

    [19:49] rather than pepole spouting ideology about how that might be done for their college term paper

  146. Bean Wollongong

    [19:50] good ideas Xan

  147. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:50] well I expect the board will be elected

  148. Chili Carson

    [19:50] that’s what i was thinking Rubaiyat

  149. Prokofy Neva

    [19:50] you can do things like elections successfully when you have like-minded

  150. Rubaiyat Shatner

    [19:50] and if there are come cottage industries represented there, as chosen by the membership then so be it

  151. Prokofy Neva

    [19:50] Like-minded have to come together — and to understand what the like is they are minded about

  152. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:50] Chili – do you have any next steps planned?

  153. Chili Carson

    [19:51] Yes, first, because of timing issues, I want to make sure that people in different time zones have a chance for input as well

    [19:51] So, I am working on setting up some additional presentations

  154. Xantha Oe

    [19:52] i think it will be a dedicated effort required by the Board/other participants to establish & run a successful CoC

  155. Chili Carson

    [19:52] I am hoping some folks will step forward who are interested on working on this and then we can start to develop some ideas to present to the community

  156. Prokofy Neva

    [19:53] Chili well maybe you could just express what you personally want and what motivates you?

    [19:53] why you felt this was needed and wanted to take it on as a volunteer activity?

  157. Xantha Oe

    [19:53] chili – i think it is important to get some high profile indiginous/organic SL business owners on the CoC side to avoid scaring the ideological crowd off that the CoC seems corporate and repugnant

  158. Chili Carson

    [19:53] I guess the best way I can say it, is I just see a need and thought I would try to help

    [19:54] I agree Xantah, that would be very helpful

  159. Prokofy Neva

    [19:54] that’s a good point; I wonder if the indigenous businesses are at the point where they’ll all be cleared away tho such as to make worrying about them unnecessary

    [19:54] the group tools might give them a bit longer shelf life however

  160. Bean Wollongong

    [19:55] Prok, what motivates you to come and hear about it???

  161. Prokofy Neva

    [19:55] Because I’ve run a business for 2 years in SL.

    [19:56] I’ve also run a Consumer Advocates group that has had a very hard time due to very basic social and technical limitations.

    [19:56] and I’ve also participated in many debates over these 2 years with people who started BBBs and CoCs

    [19:56] mainly to advance their own business interests

    [19:56] and that’s understandable

  162. Bean Wollongong

    [19:56] ok, do u anticiapte something like this to be valuable to u and your business?

  163. Prokofy Neva

    [19:56] sometimes a group of businesses, in advancing their own interests, are the tide that raises all boats

    [19:56] For any customer service intensive business like my own

    [19:57] every minute spent talking in a committee where there is no cash being earned

    [19:57] in an environment with a highly unstable platform

    [19:57] with crashes, griefing, Wed. hurricanes etc

    [19:57] is time lost

    [19:57] so it has to be budgeted carefully

  164. Bean Wollongong

    [19:57] understanable

  165. Prokofy Neva

    [19:57] so to the extent it can be done through asynchronous forums, notecard givers etc all the better

  166. Chili Carson

    [19:58] yes, are we ready for tomorrow’s hurricane?

  167. Prokofy Neva

    [19:58] having laggy meetings iwth only 40 on the sim is always a recipe for a disaster

    [19:58] it will indeed be a tsunami.

    [19:58] Bringing many good and many bad things to SL.

    [19:58] With huge velocity.

  168. Bean Wollongong

    [19:59] 3 steps forward 2 steps back

  169. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:59] ok, we’re sort of out of time

    [20:00] clearly there seems to be a lot of interest

    [20:00] and concern about these dieas

    [20:00] and I’m sure Chili looks forward to working

    [20:00] with you to come up wioth a workable organization

    [20:00] keep an eye open for future announcmeent s from her about other sessions

  170. Chili Carson

    [20:00] Yes, thank you everyone for coming tonight. The feedback was invaluable

  171. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:01] but for now, let’s all thank Chili

    [20:01] and thank you all for coming tonight

  172. Rainbow Drake

    [20:01] Thank you Chili.

  173. Bean Wollongong shouts

    [20:01] THANKS

  174. Chili Carson

    [20:02] Thanks for having us Hank!

  175. Prokofy Neva

    [20:02] I think probably RL businesses will wipe out indigenous business, yes.

  176. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:02] yes big thanks to ESC for letting us use the space

  177. Bean Wollongong shouts

    [20:02] thanks Hank!

  178. Prokofy Neva

    [20:02] They will have the one thing that people provided here for free, but paid for: their time

  179. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:02] I hope we can stay here for future meetings

  180. Prokofy Neva

    [20:02] the entire thing has run on unbillable hours

    [20:03] once you take away that from indigenous business and provide billable hours from outside companies

  181. Xantha Oe

    [20:03] and these RL businesses may need a CoC less

  182. Prokofy Neva

    [20:03] the locals will be wiped out

  183. Xantha Oe

    [20:03] or at least have different needs from a CoC

  184. Bean Wollongong

    [20:03] there is no fre lunch Prok in RL or SL

  185. Prokofy Neva

    [20:03] only the most local and stubborn of locals might survive

    [20:03] well but there has been Bean

    [20:03] free accounts, free islands, free unbillable hours

  186. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:03] See you all next time!

  187. Prokofy Neva

    [20:03] that’s how people made their businesses

  188. Chili Carson

    [20:03] Thanks Poinky!

  189. Bean Wollongong

    [20:03] Unbillable is never Free :)

  190. Prokofy Neva

    [20:03] with Linden subsidiesi in fact if they came before 2005

  191. Zorn Cheetah

    [20:03] thanks!

  192. Prokofy Neva

    [20:04] it’s taken out of time Bean try to hear it

    [20:04] try to hear what it means to be a content creator here who spends hours creating for free

    [20:04] all these $20,000 a year salaries made from SL rely on those free unbillable hours

    [20:04] once Chili can put her IT guy on making content using Cad or whatever

    [20:04] then those largely home-based, largely female workers in SL are wiped out

    [20:04] like they would be in Russia or Turkey

  193. Bean Wollongong

    [20:05] hmmmm….ok

  194. Rez Menoptra

    [20:05] that’s a possibilty, Prok.

  195. Prokofy Neva

    [20:05] Have you been able to bill every hour and cost here Rez?

    [20:05] that’s what I mean

  196. Rez Menoptra

    [20:05] A rather unhappy one…

    [20:05] haha no, i haven’t been able to

  197. Prokofy Neva

    [20:06] well which boss in the universe can pay for you to wait for servers to come back up?

  198. Xantha Oe

    [20:06] however indiginous businesses have what FL big business does not, creativity and innovative fresh content, and despite SL being unbillable hours, it is cheaper than having a business in FL; maybe FL tools can further enable unique indigious businesses

  199. Prokofy Neva

    [20:06] well it will be interesting to see if that theory works

  200. Bean Wollongong

    [20:06] right on Xan

  201. Rez Menoptra

    [20:06] yes, true

  202. Prokofy Neva

    [20:07] but there is a big difference between content-creators who don’t bill hours and then finally can just endlessly sell copies and go play WoW

  203. Rez Menoptra

    [20:07] i’ve been trying to think of a way to say that very thing

  204. Prokofy Neva

    [20:07] and service providers who have to keep laying on the same services over and over

  205. Rez Menoptra

    [20:07] yes, true

  206. Zorn Cheetah

    [20:07] many SL businesses are labors of love, not stricktly money making enterprises with no heart.

  207. Prokofy Neva

    [20:07] The idea that only amateurs with unbillable hours to throw at this place are the innovative creative ones

    [20:07] is a deep fallacy

  208. Rez Menoptra

    [20:08] also true, prok

  209. Prokofy Neva

    [20:08] all it takes is Millions of Us or Nissan or Aimee Weber professonalizing to display those fantasies

  210. Xantha Oe

    [20:08] sure there are many innovators

  211. Prokofy Neva

    [20:08] *displace them

  212. Xantha Oe

    [20:08] i just dont thing big FL business is a big innovator

  213. Prokofy Neva

    [20:08] and that’s sad because the miracle of SL was the capacity of amateurs to achieve something

    [20:08] well you haven’t seen what they do with virtual worlds yet?

    [20:09] The Magic Circle of early adaption in SL isn’t magic.

  214. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:09] I think individuals will still be able to compete based on quality and creativity.

  215. Prokofy Neva

    [20:09] Who is Starax? His store is gone, seized by Governor Lidnen.

  216. Rez Menoptra

    [20:09] I would tend to agree, Poinky, except that companies can throw more money at this place

  217. Zorn Cheetah

    [20:09] i agree Poinky.

  218. Prokofy Neva

    [20:09] Does a new person know who Cubey Terra is? There’s no more Linden subsidized tp or pointer to his sim.

  219. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:09] he left voluntarily

  220. Prokofy Neva

    [20:10] well but the factors that made him leave are ones that have broken many many people

  221. Zorn Cheetah

    [20:10] the idea that Walmart puts all mom & pop stores out of business is also a fallacy.

  222. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:10] yes, stability of the platform is a problem

  223. Prokofy Neva

    [20:10] having Linden GOM you or break your scripts or compete against you with special offers

    [20:10] this makes many leave

  224. Xantha Oe

    [20:10] i’ve been underwhelmed with big business’ presence in SL to date; wells fargo, microsoft, american apparel, toyota

  225. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:10] but one that will keep RL business away too

  226. Rez Menoptra

    [20:10] toyota’s here?

  227. Prokofy Neva

    [20:10] other real estate agents left when Lindens suddenly decided to themselves compete with their own customers and go into the housing rental business for a time.

    [20:11] Xantha, I’m totally underwhelmed too

    [20:11] In fact, I think they have no point of purchase.

    [20:11] and they won’t stay, and many will be blown off these servers

    [20:11] but all it takes is a few determined ones with deep pockets

  228. Zorn Cheetah

    [20:11] i checked out the American Apparel store – yawn.

  229. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:11] for now, most RL business see SL as a marketing opportunity

  230. Prokofy Neva

    [20:11] or it takes a Telco from Canada instead of a Verizon from America who wants to try harder

  231. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:11] not a s a place to create value

  232. Prokofy Neva

    [20:12] well but that can change instantly

    [20:12] You already see Spin Martin talking in sound bytes about the need to "stop marketing to us and come play with us"

  233. Rez Menoptra

    [20:12] hehe

  234. Prokofy Neva

    [20:12] so American Apparel will figure out the "come play with us" part next week or the month after

  235. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:12] but I think we can expect more and more buinsesses to open up SL store fronts, in the same way they have web pages

  236. Zorn Cheetah

    [20:12] as a consumer, not a business owner, i am more interested in seeing what the little guy does, not what a huge RL conglomorate does in SL.

  237. Prokofy Neva

    [20:13] Zorn, it’s easy to root for that idea, but the Lindens have pre-structured it so that only the big guy can buy the islands.

  238. Xantha Oe

    [20:13] the real opportunity is for healthy billable hours budgets to fund innovative learning, collaboration, experiential sims which would in turn strengthen/establish FL brands in SL

  239. Prokofy Neva

    [20:13] And only the island owner can secure his venue from griefing and disruptiong.

    [20:13] and not even *cough*

  240. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:13] and if American Apparel figures it out, and produces things that are valuable to consumers, then that’s good, isn’t it?

  241. Prokofy Neva

    [20:13] well Poinky all it takes is for Aimee or Torrid to be co-opted by AA and make them dresses and shirts

    [20:13] and if not then, Nancy ACS or somebody else like that

    [20:13] from china or India

  242. Chili Carson

    [20:13] It’s been great getting together with everyone tonight, I’m hitting the hay, was a long day.

  243. Prokofy Neva

    [20:14] ok thanks Chili

  244. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:14] ok, thanks again Chili!

  245. Hank Hoodoo

    [20:14] thanks again, Chili!

  246. Xantha Oe

    [20:14] thanks chili!

  247. Rez Menoptra

    [20:14] night chili

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One Response to Chat log of discussion for “SL Chamber of Commerce Draft Proposal”

  1. Soraya Till says:

    I applaud the initiative to start a Chamber of Commerce in SL. Being a member of two Chambers in RL, I know the value of such an organization. There were a lot of comments flying back and forth at that initial meeting, but most of them were not very constructive.

    Maybe that was because, in my opinion, Chili’s starting point, namely that businesses have to be united – “a house divided cannot stand” – is both unrealistic and unsustainable. Businesses everywhere are not united because the business world is too diverse for that: there are small businesses, big ones and lots of in between ones, purposes and missions differ, access to resources is not equal, etc.

    The presentation put a lot of emphasis on ethics and fair trade. But what is fair to one maybe unfair competition to another. We can already see that in SL: the much publicized entry of American Apparel into SL can be seen as an example of that unfair competition: AA sells two dozen hot pants, of different colors, for just L$150, about the price of a single bikini in a small store.

    As said before, I am a member of two chambers. I do not recall how they define their “mission”, other than that they exists to promote business, help their members to be successful and represent them in the community. It seems to me that that is a good starting point for a CoC in SL. Get a number of people together that can agree on a mission statement and build the organization up from there. And remember that a mission statement that is longer than one short paragraph is not a mission statement but a sermon!

    A CoC based on that premise has something to offer and, therefore, will attract members, if promoted effectively. It will, probably, be most attractive to the smaller business owners, but that’s OK. In my experience in RL, most big businesses join chambers because it is the thing to do, not because it benefits them. They normally don’t show up at meetings (other than the bankers, insurance salesmen and stock brokers as they target individuals). The backbone of CoCs, as I know them, is the small business community.

    A chamber needs to provide educational and networking opportunities. That is sorely lacking in SL. The so-called business related seminars that I have attend in the few months that I have been a SL resident don’t even qualify for Business 101. I am sure that there must be business talent around in SL, people that are doing well in RL and that are willing to teach SL entrepreneurs the keys to success. The problem may be finding those people.

    Networking is another reason why businesses join a CoC. You get to know what others do and how they do it.

    It is obvious that such an organization cannot survive with volunteers alone. Membership dues would have to be charged to support a small, but permanent, staff. And that should not be deterrent if the chamber offers real value to its members. People are willing to pay for value. What is free, has no value.

    I believe that a simple set up, with well-defined benefits for members, widely and effectively promoted has a good chance of success. Only when the organization reaches a critical mass will it be able to exert some influence to protect the business community from unjust practices and unfair competition.

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